- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
- When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut.
- When I get married, I'd like to have two children.
- My heart's desire is to see my Daddy.
- I don't want to answer that.
- This is no ordinary outing at the zoo,
it's a very special occasion.
We've brought these children together
for the very first time.
They're like any other children except that they come
from startlingly different backgrounds.
- Stop it at once.
- We've brought these children together
because we wanted a glimpse of England in the year 2000.
The shop steward and the executive of the year 2000
are now seven years old.
- In 1964, World in Action made Seven Up.
We have been back to film these children every seven years.
They are now 42.
- Is it important to fight?
Yes.
- Tony was brought up in the East of London.
- I wanna be a jockey when I grow up,
yeah, I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.
- At 14, he was already an apprentice
at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom.
At 15, he left school.
- This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newbury.
I'm the one with the white cap.
I was beaten a length and a half a third
and had a photo finish.
So, I took it out of the box and kept it as a souvenir.
- It's only an eight.
- By 28, he'd given up on horse racing.
- My greatest fulfilment in life,
when I rode at Kempton in the same race as Lester Piggott.
I was a naive wet-behind-the-ears apprentice.
All my years from seven, all my ambition
is fulfilled in one moment and I eventually finished last.
Tailed off obviously, but didn't make any difference to me.
Just to be part of it, be with the man himself.
- What will you do
if you don't make it as a jockey?
- I don't know, if I knew I couldn't be one,
I'd get out the game.
Wouldn't bother.
- What do you think you would do then?
- Learn taxis.
- At 21, he was on the Knowledge,
and by 28, he owned his own cab.
- We were on the way to Langans,
and all I can hear is Alf Garnet, you know,
and it's the Labour Government and your lot up here.
- Have you got a girlfriend?
- No.
- Would you like to have a girlfriend?
- No.
You understand the Four Fs,
find 'em, feed 'em, and forget 'em.
The other F, I'll let you use your own discrimination.
I mean, this one, I tried to do the three Fs,
but I couldn't forget her.
- I went to a discotheque.
He was in the pub earlier on and that afterwards,
we went to a discotheque and Tony was down there,
and I just, from there I just, that was it.
I couldn't get rid of him.
- We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else.
- I think you got to work at a marriage.
I think all marriages go through stages,
you can't stand each other, you go through, you know,
I think, "Oh God, I hate him I wish he'd get out."
I do.
- We've been to the edge of the cliff
and looked over a couple of times,
and we've always seemed to sort of go back,
and we've sort of stayed the course,
but I must say it's not easy being married.
Anyone who thinks it is, I mean, it's quite difficult.
- In 1993, Tony and Debbie left the East End
and moved to Woodford in Essex.
- Well, with the help of my neighbour,
I'm not really a do-it-yourself type of guy.
He painted all the back of the house,
and we were gonna put a conservatory here.
If you look along here,
we've put a patio in and a pond for the fish.
- Well, when we bought it, it was very old.
This was two rooms and we've knocked it completely out.
Refitted a kitchen, put all new windows in,
new flooring, literally everything really.
Well, the fence we had a bit of luck there
'cause the next-door neighbour,
they paid for it and they'd done all this end.
So I'd done, come in my favour having a small bit done.
So, there's a blessing there, but the only thing I ever done
was I planted them three trees,
and they seem to have grown in the last three or four years.
- It has cost us a lot of money to do it, yeah,
a lot of money.
Now, we're skint.
- Well, I think we overspent about,
oh, a colossal amount, thousands.
My overheads to keep everything going here
is at this present time astronomical.
- Are you gonna get out
of this financial hole?
- Yes, without question because that is this is a millstone
around my neck at this time,
but it's nothing what two years won't achieve
through hard work and determination.
- To help out, Debbie works the day shift
in the cab, while Tony does the night shift.
- Son, it's hard work out there.
- You're not reaching me yet.
- Not getting to you. - No, you're not
getting to me, all right?
Now, be bigger, dominate me, all right?
- Son! - At 28,
Tony was taking acting lessons.
Now, he supplements his income with TV jobs.
- Oi!
- That's all I've got on me.
- Mate, if I had a pound for every time I've heard that,
I'd be a rich man.
- Got the fare, haven't you?
- Yeah, just about.
- Would everybody please sit round now
and get on with their work.
I don't want to see any backs to me.
Shouldn't be anybody turning around.
Tony, do you hear as well?
Get on with your work in front.
Tony.
Don't turn around again.
- There's only one ambition really.
I want a baby son and if I see my baby son,
then I'll see my ambition fulfilled.
No one knows that, only you now.
This is Hackney Marshes and the games are being played.
Mostly these are pub sides,
and I've been playing over here for near 28, 30 years.
- So, you're a veteran.
- You might call me that, yeah.
- Who do you play with?
- My Nicky and I think it's quite admirable
that his dad's in the same side as his son.
- Tony and Debbie have three children.
The eldest, Nicky works as a French polisher.
- I wanted him to go on the Knowledge
and become a cabbie.
I bought him a bike.
But I'm quite proud of the way he's turned out.
I mean, he's a very respectable kid.
Very respectful towards people and most of all,
he's done it all on his own terms.
- Perry, she's just started secondary school.
She's a character, but she's quite academic minded,
and hopefully, you know, she'll stay on.
- Hey Ref, come, yeah!
- Come on, let's get on with it now!
- Another one.
- We got another 16 minutes left.
Let's go!
- There you go, straight there, to your left.
- Jodi don't like school.
She's just coming up to now
that she'll be leaving school shortly.
I do feel that she's wasted a lot of years
in her secondary school.
I'm not saying that it's the school's fault.
- Well, come on. - Probably a lot of it
is her own fault, but you know, and we have tried with her,
and we have tried to push her into it.
She's just, I think she's a bit how Tony was.
She's just not interested in school,
which I feel she'll regret later on.
- Lovely.
I mean, I try to discipline them in various areas,
but at the end of the day, it is quite hard and difficult.
I like to stand up and suggest, you know,
lead with an iron fist,
but I haven't got the heart to do it,
and that's the truth in the matter.
- I have to do it.
And then if anything goes wrong, it's my fault.
- A bird said to me the other day,
she said, "Ain't you small?"
So, I said, "But you're ugly, at least I can grow."
And then I said, what can they say to that,
they can't say nothing, can they?
- And why did you fall in love with him?
- Don't know.
- I don't know how you've put up with me for so long.
- I don't know.
Sometimes, I don't know how I stand him.
- I've been in positions, you know,
oh, it's hard to say in front of Debbie, but it's true.
It's tempting.
You take the bait.
I go on holiday once a year with the boys,
to have a fling in to Spain, Magaluf,
and we have a golf holiday, all against Debbie's will,
but it's true, and I get in situations out there that,
you know, life is for living.
And I come back,
"Oh, I know what you've been doing out there.
"You've been meeting all them birds and whatever,"
and they look at ya as if to say,
"I know, but I don't want to know."
That's how it is.
I have often not gone through life
with one hand tied behind my back and my character,
happy-go-lucky nature, and I've been in positions,
and I've found myself caught in trouble.
I'm not proud at all to say this,
but the situations arise that I've had regretful behaviour
at various times but.
- You got caught and that was it.
- You know, I'm not lying about the fact.
I mean, you can always cover it up and suggest other things,
but it's, you know, true and let it be true.
- You caught him?
- Yeah.
- What happened?
- Well, you know, it was touch and go
whether we carried on from it or not.
You know, we sort of went through a very traumatic time.
- Then again, let who's never sinned cast the first stone.
I mean, it just doesn't happen
with a taxi driver living in Essex.
It happens with MPs, et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, you know, I'm not gonna hide behind any trees
and suggest, you know, I am holier than thou,
which no doubt, I'm not.
All I am suggesting is that this
is what real life is all about.
If I've been caught with my hand in the till,
that's fair enough, I'll pay the consequences.
And the consequences is,
iron out the details and the problem with my wife
and my marriage and hopefully eventually
get it in the right lane and put it back on the tracks.
You know, it's...
- Why did you forgive him?
- Because at the time,
I felt that there was still something
in the relationship, you know,
and there was three children involved here as well,
which is not easy when you've got three young children,
and there was obviously still something between me and Tony,
and it's not easy to walk away.
I could have walked away.
I felt, it's silly, but when it happened,
I felt very strong and I could have walked away.
It's not been easy to try again, to get over it, the hurt,
'cause I've never done it, and I've never been unfaithful,
and that's what I've found really hurtful,
and I feel that I'm a good wife and I didn't deserve it.
- All I understand is dogs, prices, girls, Knowledge,
roads, streets, squares, and Mum and Dad in love.
That's all I understand, that's all I want to understand.
- Tell me about the family.
Are you fairly closely knit?
- I love them all.
There's not one that I don't love
more than another, other than my mum obviously.
But your mum is the root of the tree,
you love your mum best.
- By the time he was 34,
both Tony's parents had died.
- I'm at the graveside, I'm talking to her,
you know, of all things.
I've got all images running through my mind saying like,
"Tony, go downstairs, get me five weights,
"you know, one and a penny," and I used to go in the shop,
she used to throw the cotton in a hair curler
over the landing and I used to tie the cigarettes
on this bit of cotton and she used to pull 'em up,
and you'd see her in the end,
"Thanks, Tone see you after school, be good,"
and that's the way it was.
Even now, I get emotionally sentimental over my mum and dad.
It's just because I feel,
the weekends they could have had over here
in the later part of the life.
It would have been nice to know
that their last days were with me type of thing,
but it wasn't to be.
The poshies, "Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes," they're nuts.
Just have to touch 'em.
I don't want to change because if I change,
it proves the other Tony Walker was all fake.
You know, I'm not trying to keep up with the Jones'
and make myself any more
than what I know I'm capable of doing.
But I mean, I can only go so far, I'm only a cabbie.
I mean, I'm not exactly a movie star,
but I've done as well as I can go,
and I think this is about the limitations for me now.
So, I'm happy with what I've got.
If anything else comes along, it's a bonus.
- Tell me, do you have any boyfriends, Suzi?
- Yes.
- Tell me about him.
- Well, he lives up in Scotland and he's, I think he's 13,
and I'm rather lonely up there
because he usually goes to school,
but we used to play till about half past six
when he comes home from school,
then we go in and then he goes home to do his homework.
- Have you got any boyfriends, Suzi?
What is your attitude towards marriage for yourself?
- Well, I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought
'cause I'm very, very cynical about it.
But then, you know, you get a certain amount
of faith restored in it when, I mean,
I've got friends and their parents are happily married,
and so it does put faith back into you.
But me myself, I'm very cynical about it.
- When I last saw you at 21, you were nervous,
you were chain smoking, you were uptight,
and now you seem happy.
What's happened to you over these last seven years?
- I suppose, Rupert.
I'll give you some credit.
- I'm now chain smoking.
- I think you can't just walk through a marriage
and think once you get married,
it's all gonna be roses and everything forever.
You know, you have, well everybody has their rows,
but it's, we've never yet had a row
that we haven't managed to sort out.
It's very hard to actually say what it is
that goes on between a couple.
It's either there or it's not,
and maybe we're very lucky.
I mean, after 20 years, we still seem to have it.
When I get married, I'd like to have two children.
I'm not very children minded at the moment.
I don't know if I ever will be.
- What do you think about them?
- Well, I don't like babies.
- What was the biggest shocks to you
when you suddenly were confronted with a small baby
that you had to be responsible for?
- Panic set in, I think,
that I wasn't going to be able to cope.
- At 28, Suzi had two sons, Thomas and Oliver.
- I mean, I don't think
I'll have any more for the reason
that I will get pleasure out of these two,
but I can't see me going on and on and on.
- By 35, she had a daughter, Laura.
- I don't want to. - Very little has changed.
My life is probably very much the same as it was then.
I've had another baby,
we've moved house and that's about all.
- Would you like having a nanny
to look after them, or do you want to look after them?
- No, I want a nanny to look after them.
I've chosen to stay home for the last 15 years
to bring up my children
because I wanted to be the one that did it.
Tom is now 16 and he's his own man really now.
He's suddenly got confidence in himself now
and having been a very, quite a shy child,
he's now come out of himself and he's his own person.
Oliver's very individual,
it's a sort of love/hate relationship Oliver and I have.
We don't get on all the time,
but we still come through most things.
But it's been a hard battle for him.
He's got learning difficulties
and life hasn't dealt too many easy cards for him,
and so it's a lot harder for him.
- C-O-N-T.
- Laura just seems to take life in her stride.
I mean, she just takes it.
I'll give an easy one, always.
- A-L-W-A...
- And she's very easy going and gets on with life.
Equal.
- E-Q-U.
- Tom will be away at university whatever
in another couple of years,
and they'll all get on and make their own lives.
That's all.
The mid-40s is a crossroads for people
'cause their lives do change,
and I don't want to just suddenly find
when the children have gone, I've got nothing to my life,
I'm not very good at sitting around doing nothing.
I have to be doing something,
I have to have a goal or something to try and achieve.
- The more she went
through the stages of bereavement,
the bigger the space became,
but the actual grief...
- Doesn't go away.
- Doesn't actually go away ever, but just.
- I got into bereavement counselling
about four years ago.
- Interestingly enough.
- It can be very harrowing, it's very difficult,
which is why all counsellors need a supervisor
because you come out sometimes from a session
mentally and emotionally drained.
- 'Cause she was coming more to terms with what happened.
- It's an extraordinary experience
when you meet someone who is suffering terribly,
and over the months, you see them move on.
You see them get their life back together again.
- At 28, Suzi's father died.
- It is terribly hard,
and even now, I still can't believe my father's not here.
It's still sinking in, I think.
My mother had been ill before,
but when I started the course,
I didn't know quite how ill she was then,
and then we'd found out she had fairly terminal cancer
when I was halfway through the course.
And I did wonder whether I could carry on
'cause it was quite difficult going to the course every week
and listening to other people, what they had gone through,
but in a strange way, it helped me.
- You know as well as I do
that if you've got a complicated bereavement.
- So, I came through the course,
and my mother died just after that,
but I did find it a help doing it
'cause I'd just felt I wasn't alone.
And I think that's the whole point
of bereavement counselling, is that people feel very alone
when they've lost someone very close to them,
and a lot of people don't have someone to turn to.
Well, with any child
going through their parents splitting up aged 14,
you're at a very vulnerable age and it does cut you up,
but you know, you get over it.
I never had a very close relationship with my parents.
I didn't really know them very well,
but in the last few years of her life,
we had become closer and I think that's what I resent,
that I lost here when I did because I was just beginning
to really build a relationship with her.
- When he was 34, Rupert made a big career move.
- I was a partner in quite a big law firm,
and I resigned from that and set up my own company.
I tend to specialise in refurbishing old buildings
and converting them into offices.
- It was a very difficult time
when Rupert was deciding to leave.
He's got a lot of responsibilities with all of us,
and it's not easy just starting off on your own.
- Do you ever worry
that the roof might fall in and you'll be out of this?
- Yes, I mean it crosses my mind,
and this last year, it's quite, you know,
it's crossed my mind quite hard that we might,
you know, we could lose this.
- I've never, ever wanted to have a business
which was dependent on losing your house,
but I think ultimately that can always happen.
- The gamble paid off
and the company's doing well.
What sort of things do you do?
- Ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong.
I might play croquet, things like that.
I did have a privileged background, but on the other hand,
I was sent away to boarding school very young,
which I find very hard to cope with,
and I'm sure my parents did it
for what they felt was the right reason.
I just felt rejected,
which is why I never wanted to force that onto my children.
- What do you want most out of life?
- To be happy and get on with life.
I mean, I don't want to just sit back
and let it all whiz past.
You don't know how long you've got your life for.
You could be run over by a bus tomorrow,
so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it.
If I could have it over again, I would change,
I would change my life from 14 to 21.
Those years were not good for me.
Like any other child with divorced parents at 14,
I felt very lost, bewildered.
I would have made more of my education
instead of rather throwing it away
because I just thought I knew it all
and didn't want to be bothered.
But I can't turn the clock back,
so I just have to bury that and think, "Well okay,
"it was a time in my life that was unhappy," and move on.
- Two of the boys are coming
into that period of their lives.
Are you watchful of that for them?
- I am watchful of that,
but I hope they have a more stable home life
than I had at that age,
and I don't take for granted the home life
that Rupert and I have tried to build for them.
All I want is to be here long enough,
to be fit and healthy long enough,
to see my children grow up to be independent people.
What I really couldn't cope with
was if I died before they were grown up.
It's the one thing I think every parent dreads
is not living long enough
to see their children into adulthood.
Excellent!
- What do you think about rich people?
- Well, not much.
- Tell me about them.
- Well, they think they can do everything
without you doing it as well.
- Symon was brought up in a children's home,
the only child of a single parent.
- Rich people, they have all different things.
They have everything they want,
whereas poor people, they don't have nothing
and they know they haven't got nothing.
And so, they know they're missing something.
- What are they missing?
- Well, I'm missing a bike and a fishing rod.
20 years ago, when I was born,
you know an illegitimate child,
that's something that's only whispered about,
people felt strongly about it in those days,
but nowadays, it's not a serious matter.
The serious point is whether you stay
with somebody or you leave them.
Since 21, I've got married, had a couple of kids.
Well, I don't think there's anybody else
I could have ever married expect Yvonne.
She's my life really because we're together,
we have the children and everything.
- When did you decide to have the five,
did you want to have them close together.
- Yeah because if you separate your kids,
you see one's 15, and one is six,
and there's such an age gap that they could never get on.
They never grow up together, they won't know each other.
- By 35, Symon and Yvonne were divorced.
At 42, he had married Viennetta.
- We used to go out when we were younger.
We met in a launderette.
- Once a week.
- Once a week at the launderette,
and we just sort of drifted apart and...
- Unfortunately.
- And had our own lives, got married,
and we met up again six years ago, nearly six years ago.
And then we're gonna go to the...
- She already had a teenage daughter, Miriam.
Now Symon and Viennetta have a four-year-old son, Daniel.
Does he remind you of yourself when you were younger?
- Oh no, he's got far more energy than me even.
- He's a bit of both of us actually.
He's very bright and very quick.
Very clever.
- I like to know how things work,
so, for that, yes, he is like me.
- Why did you call him Daniel?
- Oh, long story.
- It was my father's name, yeah.
- That's nice.
- We decided to name him Daniel before he was born,
didn't know it was a boy.
- They say, "Where's your father then,"
you know, "When your mum's out at work,
they say, "your father."
And I just tell them I ain't got one.
- What effect has that had on you?
- Well, I don't think it's had any effect on me
'cause what you don't have you don't miss.
I mean, it hurts me that he wasn't there,
but at the same time, he wasn't there.
He wasn't there for me, he wasn't there for my mum,
so I never really wanted to see him.
That's anger inside me but personally, I'd like to see him,
just for curiosity's sake,
but the anger that I've had for how many years is,
it's been overgrown by boredom now,
I just can't be bothered to look for him.
Well, they've got everything.
They've even got what I never had, so.
- Which is what?
- A father, innit?
So I mean, they've had everything.
I've still got five children.
I mean, they haven't really taken the break-up
of my first marriage too well.
I've got still to get to grips with that and get to them
and make them understand that Daddy is still Daddy.
- Has that been hard?
- It has for me because I've always been the retiring type,
the, you know, not really taking anything on,
but I don't really want to lose my children, any of them.
I still want them to know that I am there for them.
At that time, I thought maybe the two families could meet
and everything would be all right,
but we're not talking about a movie,
we're talking about life,
so things don't always work out that way.
- It would be nice if they can just pop over
and say, "Hello," and come in freely
like as if they were one of the kids
'cause other kids do, so why shouldn't they?
- Well, before I'm old and that, enough to get a job,
I just walk around and see what I can find.
I was going to be a film star,
but now I'm gonna be an electrical engineer.
Which is more to reality really.
- By 21, Symon was working in the freezer room
of Walls Sausages in London.
How do you see the future as far as work goes?
- Well, I know I can't stay at Walls forever.
I mean, it's just not for me.
I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead.
I think if I really wanted to,
I could learn a trade even now.
No, I'm quite happy to stay there.
It doesn't look like it's gonna close down,
so I mean, better the devil you know, innit?
- Walls did close down
and Symon had a number of warehouse jobs
before he joined Yusen, an airfreight company,
as a fork-life truck driver.
- I mean, when I was young,
I used to say, "Oh, I'd never work in an office,
"all those stuffy people in a stuffy office,"
but I've done enough hard work to realise
that I've been doing the wrong job for so long now.
- And the brother has big eyes.
- And he's blue.
- Yeah. - The brother is blue.
- Not last year, the year before,
Symon went to do GCSE Maths, same thing as my daughter,
and they're both swotting here,
and Symon comes up with good grades and he passed,
but he, you know, it's just given him a kick up the bum
to get something in that field 'cause he's very good.
- I'd one dream when all the world
was on top of me and everything was,
and I just about got out and everything flew up in the air,
and it all landed on my head.
- So, are you still drawing and painting?
- I like to but I never really find time
to actually sit down and set something out to do.
It's just that this is so good, she sort of stands back and.
- Yeah, exactly.
- He does help Miriam though.
She's doing art at A Level,
so when she has difficulties in something,
she says, "Symon!"
So, he comes to the rescue at times.
- I get it from my mum 'cause she loved art.
Always dragging me round the galleries and whatever.
- Was it difficult moving from the home
back to live with your mother?
- Well, I find it's comfortable.
See, I can get on well with my mother sometimes.
Well, that's good because a lot of young children
can't get on with their parents at all
at this time of their life,
but I get on pretty well with my mum now.
- What sort of life does your mother have?
- Well, it seems hard.
I means, she's always been nervous.
She has periods of depression.
It's made me very sort of protective towards her.
I feel I've got to help her all the time.
She died in 1990, she had cancer,
and she didn't survive all the stuff they was doing to her.
- Was that tough?
- Yeah, for me because there were so many things
I never actually said to my mum
that I would have liked to say to her.
It's just things you think about afterwards.
It's too late because they're not there anymore.
- What sort of things?
- You know, just I love you every day,
and I like what you're doing,
or I don't like what you're doing.
Just ordinary silly things, you know?
Everybody's got to get used to knowing coloured people
and coloured people in turn have got to get used
to being with white people.
'Cause if either side doesn't work properly,
then no side'll work properly.
They're just the same as me, aren't they?
- Do you think it's hard being a black man
in English society today?
- It depends what you want, dunnit?
If you just want to live in the society, no it's not hard.
If you want to fight the society, yes, it will be hard.
To be honest, Michael, I have never actually taken it on.
I've had it from both sides to be honest,
to be fair to meself.
I've had white say, you're black this and that.
And I've had black people telling me,
you're white this and that.
So, I stopped thinking about colour a long time ago.
- But it's still as tough out there.
You're still fighting,
and you're still having to push yourself.
'Cause when you've got a job,
you've always got to try and work harder.
Even at school, you've got to,
they seemed to stereotype you.
Even when we moved in here, we had no one speak to us
because they expect you to be having loud music
and parties and that, but we're not all the same, you know?
You've got good and bad in every nation,
and you know, we're just the same as anyone else
as far as I am concerned.
- Just wanna be like everyone else really.
Nothing too marvellous.
I feel okay, just getting on with me life,
just sort of keeping up,
but I know if I really wanted to, I could get on.
It would only take a little spark in me to do it.
- What's the biggest influence
Viennetta has on you?
- I think really motivation
because before I never really pushed myself.
She looks after me.
She doesn't just push me, she looks after me, you know?
She will never let anything be wrong for me.
She always makes sure that if I go down the road,
I look all right.
If I go anywhere, I look all right, you know,
and I do the right thing,
and it makes me feel that there's somebody out there
that really, really wants me.
- I read the Financial Times.
- I read the Observer and the Times.
- What do you like about it, John?
- Well, I like, I usually look at the headlines
and then read about them, about it.
- What's the point of the programme?
- The point of the programme is to reach a comparison.
I don't think it is.
We're not necessarily typical examples.
- And I think that's what people
seeing the programme might think.
- Yes. - Falsely.
- They tend to typecast us.
- So, everything we say, they'll think,
"Oh, that's a typical result of the public school system."
- Yeah.
That's one of the problems with this sort of programme,
I don't really think that for people like us,
unless one speaks at seven and have been very funny,
have very much to say that's very interesting.
'Cause I mean, we don't know very much.
- Well, we didn't know every much when we were seven,
but at least
we were quite funny. - We were at least funny.
- Yes, I agree with John.
All we can do is say what we think,
and if that's of interest to people, good luck to them.
- I'm going to Charterhouse
and after that to Trinity Hall, Cambridge.
- Andrew went to Charterhouse
and Cambridge where he read Law.
- I'd like to be a solicitor and also fairly successful.
- At 28, Andrew was a solicitor.
What qualities do you think it needs to be successful?
- Well, you have to have a legal ability
in my business obviously,
and you have to have a sort of bedside manner
as far as your clients are concerned.
It's no good being brilliant
if you can't communicate with your clients.
- By 35, he had become a partner.
- Well, I work in the corporate department
of a large firm of solicitors in the city,
that is, dealing with things like mergers and acquisitions,
joint ventures, general corporate advice,
putting deals together for clients.
I suppose the pace has changed a bit.
As you know with technology, people expect the work done
much faster than they perhaps did,
well perhaps not so much seven years ago,
but 14 years ago.
Our practise has got much more international
with more business travel.
We have offices in places
like Sao Paulo in Brazil, Moscow, Thailand.
- How has that changed your life
or your part in the company?
- Well, it really means that you are
under increasing pressure to produce things quickly.
- And how is that for you?
- That's fine, you have to meet the pressures,
that's what people come and see you for.
- What do you think about girlfriends at your age?
Tell me what you think of girlfriends?
- I've got one but I don't think much of her.
They're no longer just bores
who won't play this or something.
- They're part of the community, and they're there.
- And you can begin to talk to them.
- I don't think I financially come from the same background.
Andrew didn't go for the haughty deb,
he went for a good Yorkshire lass,
but I mean obviously he knew what he wanted.
- By the time he was 28, Andrew had married Jane.
- I think I'm probably quite down to earth,
and I tend to be less extravagant than maybe some women are.
I don't go out and buy lots of expensive dresses.
I just go out and buy one or two.
- And even better, pay for them.
- I suppose the most important thing that's happened
is that we've had two children,
one five years ago, Alexander,
and then a couple of years later, Timothy.
When I see the children playing together now,
I realise how much fun they have together,
and it's probably what I missed perhaps being an only child.
- What's the most difficult thing
about keeping the marriage together?
- I don't think it is particularly difficult actually.
We seem to manage all right.
Would you say?
- I think so, we talk, don't we?
We have a situation where we retain a babysitter once a week
and we make a point of, if at all possible,
that once a week, we always go out by ourselves mid-week.
And I think that's quite important.
- Do you worry at all about not having a career,
and what will happen, as I said,
when the children leave home?
- Well I do, but I've made that decision now,
and I've come to terms with it.
You know, if I'd wanted to be a career woman,
then probably that's what I'd be,
but I didn't want to be a career woman.
I wanted to be a mother and to be a full-time mother.
- You get a very good view
of the Statue of Liberty now.
- Uh-huh, can you see it?
- It's our children's half-term,
so we decided to spend a few days in New York.
- You go and have a look, Tim.
- I come here from time to time on my work,
but it's usually very rushed.
But we thought it would be rather nice
to bring them with us.
- Smile.
- I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools
because if we didn't, schools would be so nasty and crowded.
- Yes. - So do I think so.
- Yes. - And the people
in the schools.
- And the poor people would come rushing in.
- The man in charge of the school
would get very angry because...
- And he'd get bankrupt once more.
- He wouldn't be able to pay all the masters
if he didn't get any money.
- An education is very important.
I mean, you can never be sure
of leaving your children any worldly goods,
but at least you can be sure
that once you've given them a good education,
that's something that no one can take away.
Well, Alexander is coming up into his teens,
and he'll be sitting common entrance
to go to his next school later in the year,
which will be a boarding school.
In fact, he's down to go to the same school as I went to.
Timothy is continuing where he is now for a while
and perhaps be going through the same procedure.
Well, I think boarding makes you feel self-sufficient
and also, it teaches you to be away from your parents
and to live with people for a long time.
- It's going to seem very, very strange,
but if it's what he wants to do
and if it helps him to get where he wants to go,
then I'm prepared to only see him every three weeks.
- Once I had to talk to Greville,
he was in my house and I asked Sir
if he could put him out of my house
because he was always getting minuses.
It think it's become much more competitive
for children nowadays.
I don't really remember much about my early childhood,
but I feel that they are under more pressure to perform now.
You know, you look back at us at the age of seven,
saying we're going to this school,
that university and so on.
But there have been many places
where one could have gone wrong.
Just because you have the opportunities,
it doesn't mean that you necessarily are gonna pull through.
- Where might you have gone wrong do you think?
- Well, one could have given up on university,
one could have found the pressures of work too much.
One could have found the pressures of marriage too much,
all sorts of things can go wrong.
- And what is it in you do you think
that's pulled you through?
- Well, I suppose it's just being persistent.
I don't like giving up,
and perhaps it's also not being too adventurous,
not wanting to do anything else, once you start, you know.
I've been in my job for 20 years.
I haven't really wanted to do anything else.
- When I leave this school, I'm going to Collett Court,
and then I will be going to Westminster Boarding School
if I pass the exam.
And then we think I'm going to Cambridge in Trinity Hall.
- And then it just presents itself.
- Half, three.
- John went to Westminster School.
He went on to read Law at Christchurch, Oxford.
- I do believe parents have a right
to educate their children as they think fit,
and I think someone who works on the assembly line
in some of these car factories earning huge wage
could well afford to send their children
to private school if they wanted to.
- At 21, we asked him what career he would pursue.
- Might be at the Bar.
- Doing what?
- Perhaps Chancery practise.
- I now have a career, I'm a barrister.
Other than that, life chugs along in varying degrees.
When boys go around with girls,
they don't pay attention to what they're doing.
Yes, my grandmother had an accident because a boyfriend
was kissing his girlfriend in the street.
- John married Claire,
the daughter of a former ambassador to Bulgaria.
He has a very successful career at the Bar is now a QC.
He decided not to take part in this film.
- When I leave school, I'm going to the Dragon School,
I might and Mummy's, and I might go to,
after, I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough.
I can't remember all other the places
because Mummy's got so many, but there's some of them.
- What about university, Charles?
- I might go to Oxford.
- Charles went to Marlborough,
but he didn't go to Oxford.
- In fact. - Instead he went
to Durham University.
- I'd say I'm pleased I didn't because it's very much
a sort of set from Marlborough Prep School,
Marlborough Oxbridge conveyor belt.
Shoved out at the end.
- And what did Charles want to do?
- Hard to say, probably scribbling away in some basement
for some London newspaper or something.
- Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper.
He then moved onto the BBC where he became a producer.
He's now Editor of Science Documentaries at Channel 4.
He decided not to take part in this documentary.
- When I grow up,
I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that.
- Nick, a farmer's son,
grew up in the Yorkshire Dales.
- I said I was interested in physics and chemistry.
Well, I'm not gonna do that here.
- At 14, he was at away at boarding school,
and at 21, reading physics at Oxford.
So, what career are you gonna pursue?
- It depends whether I'll be good enough
to do what I want to really do.
I would like if I can to do research.
The gas in these experiments is at a temperature
comparable with that of the sun, whereas in a power reactor,
it would be maybe 10 times the temperature of the sun,
and we're trying to induce that gas to fuse.
- By 28, he had moved to America
and was doing research into nuclear fusion
at the University of Wisconsin.
By 35, he was an associate professor there.
- The first one is basically saying
that the rate of change of crystal momentum,
it's DDT at this quality H bar K.
That is equal to the Laurent's Force.
So, if you work out the density in any cell.
In addition to now being a full professor,
I've been doing some administrative jobs.
I've been associate chair of my department,
which means I've run the graduate programme in my department,
which is the Electrical Engineering department.
I've been running admissions
and dealing with student problems
and some for the graduate programme.
And I've spent the last year and a half
writing a couple of books.
One about this business of using plasmas
to process semi-conductors,
and there is another one that was about semi-conductors.
It's called "Semi-conductor Devises,"
and it's got a subtitle, "A Simulation Approach."
- Do you have a girlfriend?
- I don't want to answer that.
I don't answer those kind of questions.
I thought that one would come up
because when I was, when I was going on the other one,
somebody said, "What do you think about girls,"
and I said, "I don't answer questions like that."
Is that the reason you're asking it?
Yeah, I thought so.
The best answer would be to say
that I don't answer questions like that,
but you know, it's what I said when I was seven,
and it's still the most sensible,
but I mean, what about them?
- Nick was only 17 when I first met him,
and I knew he was a nice person.
I find him very attractive and he uses his intelligence
in his relationship with me which is very important.
- His English-born wife Jackie
is a professor of journalism at the university.
They have an eight-year-old son.
- Why only one child?
- Well, there's a couple of reasons,
one is that these silly jobs we have
demand such an amount of time
and such a commitment that it's hard to fit in one.
Also, he's such a lively person
and he demands such a lot of attention
that he makes it hard to find time for another.
So, I think that's the main reason.
- So, you don't want another one?
- Oh yes, no, I would love to.
I would dearly love to have another one actually.
No that's, don't go away with that impression.
No, I absolutely adore children.
If I can change the world, I'd change it into a diamond.
I don't really think that I've done anything
you could call a great success.
I mean, it would seem really ridiculous
to any of my friends who watch this if I said,
"Christ, aren't I a great success, look at me."
- When I first met you,
I remember I thought this was very idealistic,
but it was rather interesting,
when I asked you why are you working on fusion,
you said you wanted to save the world.
I think that's a bit embarrassing now,
but I don't think you'd feel the same way
about something that you didn't feel mattered.
- I always wanted to have an impact,
to do something useful
that was actually going to benefit people.
I had this vision of people in ivory towers being cut off,
doing stuff all their lives
and having no effect on anybody whatsoever,
and that was absolutely not what I wanted to do,
and so I chose to go into this fusion business
'cause I thought this would have a huge impact.
- Plasma's supposed to fill that volume.
- I'm not expecting to be reported
in newspaper headlines any time soon.
That's not the limit of my ambition,
but it's just trying to be realistic.
I'm just gonna have to try
and settle for reasonably small victories.
They'd like to come out for a holiday
in the country when we'd like,
when I'd like to have a holiday in the town.
- Do you get lonely here?
- You just tend to get stuck into your everyday routine,
and you don't think about it, but when you call home,
then you realise how far away you are,
and now it seems acute
because both our families are getting older,
even if you think in terms of seeing them
once every two years.
- That's not so many times. - You're thinking only
about 10 times and that's awful.
- This year, Nick went back to the Dales
to see his family.
It's been five years since I've been back here.
It's changed quite a lot.
It's got more touristy and less like a region that's farmed.
Every second house seems to be a hotel at the moment.
- This is the old pippin.
- Well, it's been rotten for my dad
because he's been unable to walk a lot of the time.
He'd had terrible troubles with his legs,
and of course, farming's in a miserable shape,
so he's retiring, and the stock have been sold.
Yes, I think he'd had a very hard life.
He's had to work enormous hours every day of his life
doing something that ultimately isn't going to work.
- Do you want to take up farming?
- No.
I'm not interested in it.
My youngest brother, the deaf one,
if he can't do anything else,
he can probably run the farm if he can't, as a last resort.
- So, your brothers won't take over on the farm?
- Absolutely not, no.
Neither of them really wanted to, I don't think.
Andrew's a newspaper reporter.
He's I think about to take a job near York.
He's gonna need a base over there.
He can't commute from here.
Well, Christopher's married, which is great.
He has a very nice wife who is getting better and better
at communicating with the deaf and he works in Skipton.
He's taking some courses in computers.
I'm not actually sure what, but he always says to me
that I do computers and I think that it's a good idea
that he does computers and I do.
So, I try to encourage him.
- So, you're all away,
so the Hitchons are finished here?
- Yes, the Hitchons are certainly
largely uprooted from here, aren't they?
I'm the only child in the village
except for my baby brother.
Well, this is Arncliffe School,
which is where my brother and I went to school
from age five to 10.
And there's the church
where we were all christened and everything.
We used to go to harvest festivals and things there.
- What did you learn here do you think
that you carried with you?
- Well, you just look at this place.
I mean, it's utterly beautiful
but not beautiful in the pretty cutesy way.
I think of it as being magnificent but rather grim really.
I sort of feel as if you could look deep inside me,
I feel like there's some of this in there somewhere,
and it's rather dower but just wonderful.
It's very uncompromising, and sometimes it's rather tragic,
but it makes other places you go
seem rather trivial as well.
I'm just enormously proud of having come from here.
The people are, the idea of being a Dales person
is really terribly important to me.
What you see that's so magnificent
are the clouds sweeping by all the time,
air and cloud and water continually sweeping over you.
I mean, there's a poetic side to that,
and I would be looking at these and thinking,
"Now, how does a cloud work?"
And when you come down to it,
what I do when I try to solve equations,
it's the same equations that describe clouds
and water and air flowing around.
From a scientific point of view,
I relate back to this sort of thing.
- So, this is a sign, there's ESAs, there's LFAs.
- It's hard being away from your roots, isn't it?
- Terribly hard.
It's hard in lots and lots of ways.
I mean, if you go to an alien culture,
you don't know what's going on around you half the time.
It's really strange to go to a different country,
people don't send out the same signals.
I could try that. - Even if it's frightening.
- It's very hard to imagine being able to come back here,
and I think about it a lot,
but I haven't seen the way to do it yet.
In some sense, it never really belonged to me.
I mean, part of me would love to own a stake in it,
but I really don't own any of it.
But the other thing is that I've had to move out of here,
and I think that the way the world is,
it's very hard to stay in one place.
People are forced to move constantly.
The history of this century has a lot of examples
where people moved or should have moved
and professionally and in lots of other ways,
it's really important that people are always thinking
about what's happening around them
and how they have to react to it.
Beauty's transient, so maybe we can come by here
and visit it, but unfortunately,
I'm not gonna be permitted to be here very much.
- And what about all the other children?
What's happened to them?
- Well, I'll go in to Africa and try and teach people
who are not civilised to be more or less good.
- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
- What would you do if you'd lots of money,
about maybe two pounds?
- I would buy meself a new nice house, wouldn't I?
- What does university mean?
- When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut,
but if I can't be an astronaut,
I think I'll be a coach driver.
Well, I'm going to take people to the country
and sometimes take them to the seaside.
- Is Neil still homeless?
We'll find out tomorrow.